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[Music]  good morning everyone good morning thank  you for a Bluewater cruising Association  for hosting this event your alternator  output is connected over a very tiny  wire for 3 feet to the starter solenoid  voice post in turn that starter solenoid  post is connected to an on/off battery  switch and in turn that battery switch  is connected to a battery this could be  an off one all both to switch it doesn't  matter believe it or not a lot of boats  that have been macgyvered people thought  the switches were hassles and they  removed them a lot of engines are on  switched now they're like well why would  I have a battery switch when I can just  turn the engine on or off of the key  it's a good idea until you have a stuck  starter and you can't turn off your  starter from keeping starting and your  boat catches on fire and that happens by  the way every summer here all the time I  get called in for that stuff for surveys  all the time  stuck starters are not a mystical  unicorn that we've never seen but I only  imagine it's a real thing they do happen  and if you don't have an on/off battery  switch the only way of doing it would be  disconnecting the wire here or there and  when there's smoke in your engine room  the least likely probability is for  someone to go down in the engine room  with a wrench and be blinded and find  the battery and disconnect the right  wire generally what happens is the hatch  gets closed back and they're like and  this was fun let's get into the dinghy  and let's get out of here so your  alternator is connected right to that  post right here and if it's an internal  regulator and we'll talk about external  regulators lighten right now honestly  it's an on/off thing what you're  generally worried about and and and this  happens 95% of the time so it's gonna  make troubleshooting and alternator easy  98% of the time the alternator burnt out  it's that simple nothing else it's not  external this wire never fails you could  have turned that battery switch off when  the alternator is running and you broke  the alternator and ie broke means you  need to bring  to shop to have it fixed but honestly  when an alternator isn't working  99% of the time it's the alternator diet  and the L turnin died because  alternators live in very warm  environments they're asked to do too  much because our battery banks are huge  compared to a car and we're asking them  to do way too much work and they're  undersized for the battery bank that we  put in and they're working at full  capacity for way too long and it's super  hot engine room and they end up  overheating and burning up  so troubleshooting an alternator is  pretty straightforward because  realistically you're not really looking  at anything other than if my alternator  is working or not and if it's not  working the way to know that is to and I  talked about this earlier to a few  people you are not connected to shore  power because you don't want your  battery charger to be working you turn  your turn the key on on the ignition but  you don't actually start the engine you  just see what your battery voltage is  and your battery voltage might say 12 6  might save 12 8 12 4 it doesn't matter  it says some sort of voltage you start  your engine battery voltage is gonna  drop 10 point 5 10 volts 9 point 5 volts  because you're starting and then you're  gonna let go the button or the key  because it's a momentary thing right a  starter is a momentary button and then  suddenly the voltage is going to start  rising back up from ten point five or  nine point five and it's gonna get close  you know over time even if you didn't  have an alternator the battery voltage  would go slowly back to twelve point six  or where you started maybe make it point  one less but it's not gonna kill a  battery to start an engine especially if  your engine started relatively well so  you're gonna get back to around 12 for  12 six and maybe thirty seconds later as  long as your engine is sorely not at  idle some alternators work at idle but  not all you want to be about 1200 1400  RPM you could be not in gear but you  need to rev up 13 about 12 1400 RPM then  they pretty much all kicking at that  point you turn it on or you rev up and  now you should see your battery voltage  go above where you started and if the  battery voltage does not go from where  you were at the beginning before  starting your engine  let's see you were at 12.5 and it never  goes above 12.5 your alternator is done  it's done it's finished black and white  it's over there's nothing else to it you  know especially if you're 99% of the  people that have this now if you're one  of the few people that have rewired  their alternator the house battery and  your engine battery only gets a charge  through an ACR then yes it's more  complicated but 99% of us have this so  unless your boat is sort of custom I've  touched it or someone knows what they're  doing touched it or you're a pro and you  touched it pretty much all of us have  this setup this setup here is pretty  rare question is that a better setup yes  this is a much better setup because it's  a better setup because it's better to  have a high-output alternator connected  to a house battery and not go through an  on/off switch yeah  this is not a it's not just an opinion I  mean it's Nigel Calder's everything  everyone agrees it's just it's more  wiring because then you have a large  wire going to your starter and you have  a large wire going to your alternator  that's too large wires and people that  build boats aren't dreamers they're  accountants and if you're not an  accountant and you're a boat builder  you're not gonna be there for long it's  it's an expensive business and if you  don't count dollars then you're not  gonna be in business  so boat builders are businesses they're  not just dreamers and so that's why they  end up doing one wire that does two  things and notice that's why there's  bi-directional arrows when you start  your pull when the engine is started it  pushes back right so it pulls to start  the engine and as soon as the alternator  is on then it goes back to the battery  hence why all these are directional  arrows here the alternator never pulls  really it only pushes right so it pushes  current back into the battery but that  battery is rarely the engine battery  because the engine battery doesn't need  a charge the engine battery needs a  little bit of a charge and it's gonna  get it through an echo charge a combiner  or something like that and that's where  sometimes it's not as simple to  troubleshoot the custom because the  custom needs a better understanding of  the system but luckily 99% of  have this so it doesn't matter now if  I've been on your boat 90% of you have  this don't do it for everyone depends  but if I'm gonna touch your alternator  of guaranteed I'm gonna do this the ACR  would hook up right here on that battery  and it would be a CR would be in the  middle and then you'd have an ACR in  between the two batteries okay  but I remember AC ours are not great for  everything they also give you a problem  if you have a custom setup there's still  a battery switch between the battery and  the starter solenoid as there should be  by the way at least 20% of you don't  have that because the owner thought it  was stupid no joke you you should have a  battery switch between a starter and a  starter solenoid that between a starter  battery and a starter solenoid you  should have a battery switch you can  have your alternator directly connected  to battery via fuse bypassing the switch  because we talked about it  alternator goes to untwist distribution  yeah question was unrelated  troubleshooting is there any correlation  between an inboard/outboard for a 350  engine a 350 engine is gonna help it's  it's gonna always be this 100% never  this you can't really change it yeah and  always this and like for example I know  the mercury outputs about 350 about 30  amps of output of alternator up to 40  amps of alternator output at reasonable  speeds so they're they're they're  putting bigger and bigger alternators on  all boards they know that there's even  like I think every Ruud has huge outputs  now on even smaller engines like 100 100  and worse power 125 horsepower engines  it depends on the spec you have to read  but yeah there there there now inclined  outboard manufacturers are inclined to  put larger and larger alternators than  just smaller in the past they were  pretty small on our boards didn't think  they needed it but they realize now that  Alborz drive big boats to write as we  know there's no limit now while there  but there's you can have pretty big  boats with just Albertson so it's an  option now to have pretty big  alternators and you can have a really  reasonable alternator on an outboard as  you would with an inboard engine short  answer yes question was is it a good  idea if you've got an alternator in an  engine room and it's pretty warm to put  a blower to blow air in or out and  absolutely on my boat I did it I run my  blower every time I turn my engine on  every single time I take the air out  because there's air cool air pretty much  everywhere and I'm sucking I literally  have the intake of the air is right  behind the alternator like I have it  within six inches  I suck warm air out of there all the  time and then cold air comes from  everywhere around the boat it's not  colder outside than inside so I take the  warm air out of the boat there's cold  air everywhere inside the boat it's not  really warmer or colder inside or  outside the engine room is hot so I  remove warm air out from the engine room  to keep my alternator cool to try to  maximize the life of my alternator when  you have your boat and you are connected  to Shore power should you have your  Shore power beyond when you start your  engine and is it okay if you are or not  correct yeah you it's a little bit like  having your battery switch and I you  know it's funny you got to be really  careful and I have had the same problem  I also thought the same thing before  when I got my boat I was like well what  does it matter it matters because what  happens is a battery charger should not  be helping your battery start your  engine that'd be one of the first  reasons again back to the point I said  yesterday there's no place to know that  your engine battery doesn't start your  engine on its own without a battery  charger right like it for example if I  need help getting out of a chair right I  want to know that right away  I don't want to always have help getting  out of the chair if I can't get out of  the chair myself I'm gonna ask myself  why and if you have your battery charger  add the dock charging you're  engine battery when you're starting your  engine your charger is gonna help charge  run that engine or start it and the  problem is when you're back somewhere at  an anchorage in the middle of nowhere  you're a battery charger is not there to  help so why it happens a lot that people  run their engine start it at the dock  and it it's okay it's not great but they  don't notice hay but they're leaving  they want to go they get to a  destination now they go to start the  engine and it's not enough because  sometimes you're only 10 20 percent off  from not being able to start your engine  and if the charger is enabled you won't  know that you're not good enough on your  own so that'd be one of the reasons the  second reason is also that a battery  charger is basically helping to run the  batteries to charge them and a starter  puts a crazy load and the moment that  you press the starter solenoid and  you're starting to crank over and it's  maybe it's a slow start 2 seconds 3  seconds 5 seconds 10 seconds your  charger sees that and says I got a help  this is all hands on deck I don't know  what's going on with the battery voltage  we've got to do something and so then  the charger starts pumping 40 amps 50  amps 101 hundred 50 amps into that  battery and then when you disc stop  suddenly like suddenly you take the  moment you take your finger off that  starter key or momentary on suddenly the  loads are gone  the charger doesn't have time to react  as quickly as you did the moment that  momentary on what it causes is a voltage  spike because the charger is not an  instantaneous device there's no such  thing as instantaneous there is a  reaction time to everything and that  reaction time could be I don't know 10  milliseconds 100 milliseconds but  pointone of a second is still too long  if suddenly you had a battery bank that  was pretty good shape you're pumping 150  amp on it thinking it's dead but it's  only dead because you started an engine  suddenly the 600 applet or 400 Apple or  300 and as gone and then suddenly the  charger doesn't react as quickly as you  disconnecting the load from it and the  voltage spike goes up and when you have  a voltage spike you have problems so  our two good reasons for why never  starting your engine when connected to  shore power and having your short and  having your charger enabled and charging  the very battery that you are starting  the engine from okay we're gonna talk  about this one is intimidating as it  should this is an external regulator and  it's related to alternators this is  probably one of the most difficult  things to troubleshoot on a boat if you  have an external regulator on your boat  you need to truly understand how it  works to troubleshoot it it can be  haphazard it's probably one of them we  get more alternator regulator service  calls from other businesses than even  clients a lot of businesses don't even  know how to solve this problem I get  calls from builders from other  businesses that would call us in to  solve this problem that's how hard this  problem is they don't call us in to  solve any type of problem this is their  above their pay grade at this point and  that is not the alternator itself but  the alternate isn't work and it has and  it's connected to an external regulator  and you can see the number of wires that  are connected to this device to give it  the magic that we talked about right  this is a magical device it's an  incredible device I do probably hundreds  a year it's awesome we'll do maybe two a  week three a week in the summer for a  week five a week there's nothing wrong  about this device but you have to  understand how it works to troubleshoot  it so let's talk about the things that  you need for this to work first of all  you absolutely have to have power coming  into this right so the power is going to  come right here coming down it can it  shouldn't come from the alternator  itself but a lot of people take  shortcuts and are gonna connect at the  back of the alternator you shouldn't do  that  but some people are gonna do that it  should come from the battery that's the  first thing if it doesn't get power if  your TV's not plugged in the wall it's  never gonna turn on first step you got  to have power second step this device  will not turn on unless it receives  ignition power that's actually like  pushing the TV or the mic or even  pressing on if you don't have the  ignition power and your ignition key is  not on  this thing will never turn on because  this only turns on if the ignition key  is on and if it's wired properly next  thing this then has power coming in it  has it's been told to turn on and this  has a brain and over a period of about I  don't know a minute some amount of time  is gonna say okay we're ready because it  doesn't want to load the alternator ret  at the right moment when it starts it's  gonna wait about a minute or there's a  sort of a timer and I say we're going to  wait about a minute until the engine  sort of running smoothly and then we're  gonna load up the alternator and it does  that by the feel voltage and the field  voltage is really what our foot does on  an actuator driving our car our foot  doesn't move a mile to make a car go  from zero to 100 miles an hour it moves  an inch and that inch is the difference  between going dead slow or stop to full  throttle right that's what it is that  feel voltage is what actually dries your  alternator that's what it does and that  field voltage is not coincident lean  blue and that's how they want it ball  Mar wants it in blue and that's what  drives that alternator in turn that  alternator will send men attack output  back to here and that's how your rpm  gauge on some engines some engines take  rpm from the flywheel some of them  taking them from the alternator so way  better to have it from the flywheel but  a lot of us get the alternator or the  RPM of the engine from the alternator  rotation and they actually get tacked  from an alternator and the other thing  that can happen is if ever and I've had  that I troubleshoot this problem this  summer we had a client that was  complaining of his alternator working  intermittently but what was happening as  the v-belt  was not properly tighten and the  alternator was overheating remember we  talked about that yesterday if you rub  two hands together you're gonna warm up  right imagine rubbing but like at you  know remember this alternator the pulley  ratio might be rotating 8,000 rpms a  minute right your engine's rotating at  2,100 2500 rpm the ratios might be 2.7  so maybe it's rotating at 6,000 7,000  rpms a minute if it's slipping that's a  hell of a lot of slippage and so that's  belt slippage causes the the  alternator overheat in part or if it's  working too hard and it's being asked to  charge a completely depleted battery  bank as a function of its size if that  alternate is too small for a battery  bank it's gonna work too hard right and  so after a few hours of leaving the dock  guess what would happen the alternator  temperature sensor would come in here  and it would say the alternator is too  hot and it was throttle back on the  field it would be like a limiter on a  car saying you know what you know I  should have had a limiter on my car when  I was growing up when I was bringing my  parent's car I should not have been able  to go above 80 kilometres an hour  I should have been dead slow zone but my  parents didn't have that so I went full  throttle and the field voltage is  basically then throttled on the  alternator when it senses your  alternator temperature sensor senses of  a alternators too warm and it can also  do that it can correct for battery  voltage but it can also over correct  well not over correct but say hey you  know what the battery is now way too  warm  we need to throttle output as well let's  say you've got a really big alternator a  small battery back this battery might  must overheat it's like eating too fast  too quickly right we overheat too right  you can't you got to pace yourself right  and so what happens is this battery gets  warm and then it senses and it sends a  code to this device and it says you know  what battery temperatures to warm  throttle back on the field voltage and  that is how an external regulator works  external regulars are great everybody  wants one every single person the only  reason you wouldn't do it is because  like most of us we have limited funds  that's the only reason besides money  there's no downside to this device about  in Canadian dollars about $600 there's  no downside to this device other than  cost and cost is a pretty gap damn good  reason but it's there's no like  technical downside to an external  regulator so the the power from this  alternator this is very interesting you  got you got a large cable coming down  you can take the power tap right from  this post right here or you could take  this power all the way back right here  at the battery you see that so there's  two wires  power comes from the battery all the way  here and then all the way back here or  you could have the power wire this come  all the way back to the battery  well no it's it's like a starter  solenoid it's powered at the beginning  before the alternator starts by the  battery the moment the alternator starts  it's then powered by the alternator so  the question was is my regulator powered  by the alternator or the battery well  before it starts it's powered by the  battery the moment the alternator starts  then it's powered by the alternator  because the alternator is higher voltage  in the battery and hence the alternator  is running the gear okay it's  complicated  what you would do is you remove  variables right so when I start  troubleshooting one of those what do I  say I say okay you know what make sure  your alternator temperature sensor is  not shorted or your battery temperature  sensor is not shorted let's remove them  from the device let's remove those up  from the device because solving a  multivariable equation is hard so the  best approach to solve multivariable  equation is to remove variables right  first step remove that battery  temperature sensor remove that  alternative temperature sensor next make  sure there's power coming to that device  right coming from the battery if you've  got power there then measure the  ignition wire make sure there's ignition  power coming down  if it that's energized and lights up  once it's turned on after about a minute  make sure that you see a volt field  voltage if you see a viel voltage and  this doesn't turn on then you know the  problem is inside the alternator and  that's how you troubleshoot that not too  hard when I say it but yeah question in  the back it the question would be how  much field voltage you have in the wire  full field means full battery voltage  which means maximum output of the  alternator and then anything from that  it could be 5 volts 6 volts 8 volts a  fraction a full field is gonna make that  alternator work at a fraction of full  output as it should as it gets near the  top right same thing when we on-ramp  imagine Automan full throttle you're  trying to get to 300 kilometres an hour  never driven but I can only imagine how  fun it would be 300 kilometres an hour  you  like full acceleration and be like  incredible but at one point once you get  close to 300 you started got a throwback  right you're not going full acceleration  to 300 and then stop you're gonna  throttle back as you get to 300 right  you're gonna pull back on the actuator  and that's what that field voltage does  because remember this is a sect of lis  makes an alternator a smart charger and  goes through Balch absorption float  question would be how foolproof or  reliable is an external regulator I'd  say 15 20 years it's it's pretty much  like I never replace them unless they  got flooded but then I mean there's  other problems the alternator is getting  changed too and you know it's it's  pretty reliable yes and the back if the  alternative question is what happens is  if this blows while the alternator is  running if this fuse blows or is turned  off when the alternator is running and  if you don't have a Scotty diode in the  back of this alternator which is a balm  our product you'll blow up your  alternator  you can't ever ever ever black and white  stop a car with a wall you can do it  absolutely yeah your car will stop  guaranteed hey we'll stop but you do not  have a car no more you have a wreck and  this would become a wreck you can't stop  current by disconnecting it from the  battery it's that moment will destroy  the alternator and I've done that by the  way I did that I remember exactly it was  about mid May 2006 and I blew up my  alternator hence me being here today  yeah question the field voltage when it  gets throttled back the alternator  output throttles back a good way to stop  an alternator from outputting would be  to cut back the field voltage altogether  disconnect the field voltage the  alternator doesn't work you don't damage  the alternator and that's completely  fine but you cannot disconnect an  alternator output on the output you can  disconnect an alternator from outputting  by disconnecting the field voltage but  you cannot disconnect an alternator from  outputting by disconnecting the output  you can stop an input but you can't stop  an output does that make sense  hey nailed it I wasn't sure about that  okay all right another question in the  back  yeah and you're right on the point is  that was brought up as some boats you  need to pull a cable to kill the air to  diesel and some boats you press a button  but I think the button is just a version  of there's a little lever there that's  activated electrically to shut the air  to the diesel you shut air to a diesel  you kill the diesel