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[Music] okay we're gonna dive in just quickly here on another option which is called a methanol fuel cell few people in the room actually have them I'm one two three anybody else am I missing four oh yay methanol fuel cell number four in British Columbia to have one who love it I'm an early adopter I like this stuff big fat big big fat it's definitely I'm not saying it's a replacement for solar but it's it's an alternative it has its place so what is it fuel cell sorry this is a little bit whitewash this is the fuel canister it's about two gallons ten liters you've got a fuel cell right here fuel cell is gives direct current output so you can see it's directly connected to the unsign of the battery right and the reason I'm trying to reiterate this unsigned is like a car there's not a lot of wires going to a car battery right you'll open your car it doesn't matter how many gadgets you have in your car there's two wires go into a car battery I believe in modular I believe in like everything should be distributed right like you should have a thing for a purpose your battery posts are not distribution points so everything is phased out everything's modular so I have unsweet distribution and we'll talk about that and I saw in the first slide we're all basically my charging voltages or amperage go right here your boy would go to it sometimes it might go there if it's a simple install but most likely it's actually going to go to the untwist tribution and it's a device that is about this big this big and about this wide weighs about 30 pounds I would say it's pretty dead quiet 22 decibels one away in anybody that has one how quiet it is can you hear it no yeah it's a cat like if this is how you when when it's on our boat if it's under the hatch you'll never hear it forget about it it's impossible it's not even a fan okay like you open the hatch you hold your breath and you go yeah I heard it it's there 22 decibels that's how quiet it is it's a cat purring so you can't hear it you can't feel it it vibrates but like so little that you can't it has on these little foam pads you can't if you were holding it you'd feel it but it's got a little foam pads underneath you can't feel it agree can't feel it so it's pretty amazing dead quiet gives output it can run because it's so quiet and it doesn't vibrate you can't feel it so it runs in the background it doesn't have high output right like you can buy a 80 model at 140 or 210 most people choose a 140 to ten that means the daily and power production of the unit but that's if it runs for a day but since it's so quiet why not leave it run when it needs to comes on and off automatically so no noise no vibration no smoke and it's a really good device for people that don't need an AC generator right a generator the crates they see that then they're running all these other things like they might be running like water makers dive compressors this is a DC output it's a battery charger that is running off methanol that's what it is right here's the canister people that buy the to 10 I'd say are gonna buy maybe three canisters a year people buy the 140 maybe two how many canisters are you using on your boat in a year two is a good number how many of you use so far how about no yeah exactly so the cost of the canister in Canadian is around $80 so people that are gonna say because you're gonna have naysayers any any time there's a new technology most of the rumors gonna say that's stupid that's rule number one and then they're gonna say well it's gonna be so expensive you got to buy the fuel you're like well is boating cheap like let me know because I have had a different experience right Mike and I'm like three canisters as $80 and I'm doing I used I used to don't include every one of my dollars spent on my boat on an Excel spreadsheet in different categories for very good health reasons I've stopped doing that but I can tell you for a fact that two hundred and forty dollars in my overall boat budge it is a rounding number that would never be seen by any accountant they would be like oh that's an accounting error it's you die means you how would you ever catch that okay and that's on the big model so at the end of the day it is a battery charger powered by methanol okay it's the one advantage is unlike solar it works year-round so for boaters that are gonna be voting on the shoulder season right that's really good winter I go boating li rly I'm one of the crazy ones two weeks Christmas I've done desolation sound never saw another boat it was amazing I own desolation sound for two weeks or felt like it Gulf Islands two weeks same thing would never be able to do it and I'm a tanker like I'm at Wallace Island on Christmas Day have the dock and the island to myself unless someone else with an e point comes and joins me and I'm actually powering the boat with E for you so solar would never help me in the winter and the other thing too what's really nice is it's a small footprint the install costs are limited when you're doing this solar array the solar is only half at best of the of the cost you've got to do the labor it's very labor intensive to do a solar array by time you ride the wires mount everything create everything that's a lot of there's a lot of time involved a methanol fuel cell is a very straightforward device to install on a boat right it's not a big deal you'll do it on average I'd say between marketing they'll say you four hours it's never gonna happen but that's easy I'd say it's between seven to nine hours on average is to do an e 44 install so it's not crazy I've had other boaters that have installed install them on there about four years ago they're changing boat we take it out and we install in the new boat because that doesn't have to go with the boat nobody's if you don't list it you take it out if you take away solar panels they'll know there were solar panels there that's like removing the lights out of the fixtures and say oh I didn't even notice I had lights in here in their room really I've never had light fixture lights really they'll know you can't remove solar pads will just put solar panels on your boat it's going and staying with your boat but Annie Boy it's not a commitment as long as you're into boating or RVing because I've done the same thing where we install it on the RV but we also pre-wired for the boat in the fall or in the winter they use that down south and then in the summer when they're voting we swap it out and put it into the boat so that's another thing too and you want to make sure that you choose the right size right so 80s 80 amp hours a day 140 amp hours a day or two hundred and ten hours a day if you do the calculation from their website you're always going to end up to this ridiculous number you have to talk to someone if you're trying to curious talk to me to figure out what the real size is but most people I'd say it's like forty seven percent forty seven percent and then like five percent this one it's very rare people do ATS very rare most people choose the one forty two the 210 same footprint yeah same footprint that the unit does need some ventilation so there's you know you do need some and it comes with vents and routing but you can't have it in a completely cool you could enclose it in a refrigerator close the refrigerator like any any unit needs some way to dissipate the heat it does output distilled water so on some sailboats we'll run the hose to the bilge or some other boats we'll run into a little like a bike water bottle right and then some people reuse that water clearly to go back into their distilled water for their flooded lead-acid batteries now they have a way to reach op the batteries the orientation of the unit is important and also if the ephah is far far away from the batteries we end up increasing the wire size to offset and we'll talk about that tomorrow voltage drop voltage drop is something it's about efficiency is how do you harness all the energy from a device I always carry a spare fuel because that's an issue and I mean that's a reality as as a boater that has a methanol fuel cell you're not going to be in the middle of nowhere and go and as you can buy fuel so what I do on my own boat I always carry for example if I had an e for 140 I'd always have one spare I have in E for 210 I have two spares I have one on the unit and I have to just waiting I have what I need for a year on my boat so I simply never have to worry about it when I finish using one I go oh I got to get another one and literally I'm never all I forgot I'm at Easter with friends and then I'm missing fuel right because you're not gonna you're not gonna go in the middle of nowhere on Cortez or in desolations sound in refuge Cove and say do you have an e4 cartridge for me please it's not we're not there on the adoption rate yet so you buy them in centers like Nanaia was gonna have it Sydney Campbell rivers gonna have it even I had a place in port port in Port McNeil port hardy you can get them in those places but in the remote places you're not gonna have any foil cartridge the methanol so that's something to consider yeah and that's a good point I'm gonna actually I'm gonna bring that yeah what about other countries people that are going offshore that are using their boat every day day in day out and are literally sailing away into the sunset and they're gonna go to Fiji now it doesn't make sense it won't it doesn't because where you gonna get the fuel right you need it's more for coastal cruising right and also yeah the fuel ability would be a big challenge right so people are here coastal no problem people who go offshore now that you can't have it for example sailors that race Vic Maui perfect device don't increase your battery bank size right don't run the engine while under way have it you sail the Y two weeks three weeks come back perfect right make sense but someone who's going offshore for five years ten years or they intend to I would be proposing that yeah the memory has a limited life absolutely that's another thing too and nothing lasts forever on average with heavy use ePHI has the numbers I think in Germany they're saying about seven years ten years to get to about 50 percent of output on heavy use most people using three fuel cartridges a year will never see that we're light users here beep yeah absolutely because it's not a time thing it's ours right like for example an e fo and m10 cartridge will give you 900 amp hours so on mine unit 900 something right 24 hours at 210 that's about 4 days in a bit that's only 100 hours in a year if I use it 300 hours and now I'm a heavy user right that's over 3000 hours over 10 years until I get there right so it's like anything else usage is the factor and what I always want to emphasize about something like that is you're not building your electrical system around it this is in supplement to everything you already have on your boat so if you have a battery charger if you have an alternator this doesn't replace both of those items it's it's about filling you know between the peaks and the valleys it's about filling in those points when you don't have power your alternator and you want to stay an extra day you can stay the first day most of us can stay the first day in Anchorage all the time we're gonna eventually move but it's about filling in the voids at the end right because it's not doing everything it actually will shut itself off if it doesn't need to run if your whole boat didn't have batteries or had a small battery no alternator no charger you'd use it a lot more but it's in supplement to what you already have on your boat any questions on methanol fuel cells yes absolutely especially small boats I'm not sure what's the size of your boat yeah like the 80 would probably be a really good size yeah yeah but on a 27 foot sailboat you you there's all there's a way there's a way there's a way I've done I've done a 24 foot sailboat around the world weird he ended up going with this built at home boat and he ended up going with this because he's not sailing all the time he's sailing for a bit stops comes back to work goes back has the fuel delivered and it's a way to supplement he's a purist it doesn't like he doesn't actually have an engine no no no it's not it's that's a fallacy that's a Miss that is a misunderstanding now here's where they probably got that from it emits and I might give this wrong carbon carbon dioxide but so do i and it admits the same amount as a cat so if you kind of willing to lock down your boat duct tape everything hotbox it your this would be a good way to go like that's probably better in their car you will die in your boat for sure guaranteed so yes it does emit but it's the amount of a cat so if you can't bring a cat into your boat then I would say maybe we need to think about ventilation ventilation might be an option because it might be you're probably going on your boat you're always drowsy you're like this is amazing I really relaxed on my boat all the time like I'm always coming here I can't sleep at home somebody coming on my boat and I'm always passing out yeah no you cannot install it it doesn't it but it doesn't that's the thing and that's the thing about new technologies it's not that you it's been around for a while I think ePHI is bait built in Germany I need they've been in business for 1215 years something like that like it's not like the first time and but people just have these connotations they're probably thinking generator you can't have a generator in your cabin like what about gassing what's gonna happen you can mine is definitely inside not everyone does the only concern might be in a really warm engine room might be a concern any other questions yeah they're actually very similar yeah they're very similar like the 140 is about five grand Canadian about maybe a little bit more a little yeah I think me fifty-one fifty-two I don't know but the big sensor is the install costs are straightforward right because it's a day now you might install it yourself doesn't matter or just have someone do it solar panel if you're gonna span for example 140 watt good quality solar panel 145 watt solar panel is about $850 to have the same type of output you need for okay so now you're around 32 you need controllers you're either go for two big ones you're about total for Graham then you need wine added another 500 you got 45 now you got to do the labor now you got to mount them right the labor is not a day the I don't an optimist right like I scare people all the time when my numbers all the time lots of potential clients go oh well he's crazy I'm like no I'm not gonna lie to you to then pretend that I'm disappointed that it didn't go as well as I thought like I'm gonna set the expectation right away things are expensive and if we were not okay with that that's fine but we're not gonna pretend that we're surprised that things take a long time on a boat and then you got to put I'll come to that and then you got to basically do the work so sore is always in my opinion gonna be more money than an e poi it's not to say one is better than the other it really depends on how you use your boat right some people love solar they boat just in the summer I have voters that just do summer boating and they they also like the idea and that's it that's all they do you're just voting in the summer you know there is an argument to do solar absolutely and if you're going offshore well then Solar makes a lot of sense if you're in two places remote totally makes sense but if you're doing fall or winter then Solar is it's hard to justify as the only option right question yeah it yeah rule number one nothing is easy all right any other questions on methanol fuel cells okay