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      so let's maybe start talking a little    bit about    and we'll get into batteries a little    bit later but we'll go through the order    of the consultation brief    um in the consultation brief you guys    mentioned    um that your desire is to have mostly a    DC baseball you want to elaborate a    little bit on what made you decide on    that and uh yeah tell me a little bit    about what why you're leaning that way    um mainly because AC is really power    hungry and    um it depletes the batteries pretty    quick    um we are space limited uh so we cannot    have uh too vests of quantities of    batteries    um so that's mostly the line of thought    and we and just many things are our    philosophy of cruising    um we don't need an electric coffee    grinder we are happy to grind our coffee    manually uh it's it's yeah we have that    sort of approach to things    um we might do laundry in a bucket we    don't need a washing machine we we don't    need too many conveniences from AC power    so that is why we mostly want to have a    reliable DC system    so nonetheless we are thinking of    including AC    which is primarily for the laptop for    example but I mean that takes     Watts    so it's not it's still not making it an    AC boat in any means    um in my point of view it's not we're    not talking    Watts or even multiple    of those that's a bit the philosophy but    where are some of the questions and    confusions come in is from my    understanding and this is where we'd    love some clarification is like once you    bring AC on board you have increased    risk of electrolysis and stuff without    galvanic isolators and yeah we'll talk    about that absolutely yeah    so yeah so you're right I mean the point    is it's hard to avoid AC altogether on a    boat yeah um it's hard it's not that's    not doable    um so you know at the very least most    people will have uh     or        um AC circuits uh for either a battery    charger right the ability to recharge    the batteries when you're connected to    shore power or for some of us that have    an on-board generator which is very few    but some of us    um so for the one for those of us that    don't have a generator at all not DC or    AC then    you know being able to connect to shore    power and keep your batteries maintained    um is pretty desirable and so and you    highlighted that too so I think for sure    we want to include a battery charger    um and that's one reason to have AC and    then the other one would be uh some some    folks will install a sort of a hot water    tank right    um so if they wanted maybe when they're    connected to shore power the ability to    warm water so that's one thing that some    people do pretty common uh many people    when connected to shore power like to    have the benefits of a sort of maybe of    a five gallon   gallon uh hot water    tank totally that it that's heated    from uh Shore power totally I hadn't    even thought of that no because I I have    it in my face yeah it's uh it's not a    big ticket item uh I would say   I    don't even know a production all    production boats have it it's you know    sometimes the water where different    places can be pretty cold on the hands    like here in the Pacific Northwest even    in the summer    um you know the water can be pretty cool    it's not   or   degrees you know so    um and shower same thing so that's    something to consider and then the other    thing too that you had brought up in    your consultation brief and I think that    that's something that even if you don't    think you need it I think it's a good    idea to have it is to install AC    circuits    um or outlets in different parts of the    boat at least pre-wire the boat for that    and again there are    places especially if you don't change uh    you know sort of    voltage source uh frequency right    because as soon as we change we go to    Europe and we go someplace where    everything is at   hertz and then you    go to some place where it's   hertz    that's really where things complicate    it's not the voltage differential that's    a big issue    um it's the frequency change so    for the two of you and you did highlight    that it probably makes sense to have    um all the AC Outlets inside the boat to    be to one standard let's say for example    and we'll talk about a little bit later    on when we talk about inverters uh    probably     volts you know uh   amp    receptacles    and to have those located maybe in a few    places throughout the boat right    generally you would see that one in the    galley you might see one in a cabin uh    one side maybe a chart table    uh for charging laptops and stuff like    that and potentially another one in the    galley and not Galley but in the head    okay so and these are these Outlets    would only work when plugged into Shore    power or these are powered by an    inverter it all depends but that that    aside    generally    um you would be recommended to wire in    some of these because it's pretty    standard right    um You don't have to but there are    reasons for why you would want to do    that and then you would run those    circuits back to the panel and then and    then you have the ultimate choice you    know if you want to run those circuits    only on Shore power or do you want to    run some of them on Shore power and    inverter right so you can do both    um    there are again because this is where    your journey is a little bit different    than many others the fact that you're    going to be changing    um destinations    um where    you know leaving North America where    things are not necessarily going to be        at   hertz this is where it gets    really challenging right    um and    generally and we'll talk about that a    little bit later but    where many voters decide to have a    simplified system is to have a battery    charger    be the only device that is connected    to their Shore power system    so effectively you don't even buy an    inverter charger anymore you buy an    inverter only    uh which always outputs   hertz because    inverter Chargers cannot unlike battery    chargers and this is you'll see this is    the wind a battery charger can have an    input range of let's say   to     or    whatever it is and also have a frequency    variability    so we'll take both European power or    North American power    and that's the beauty of having a single    battery charger    connected to your Shore power system    and then what you would do is you    effectively create an island where your    inverter is the only device that powers    all the AC outlets on your boat    I think that's what we're considering    well that's what I was comparing I I    drew like six different scenarios that    would be possible    um but the two that I'm leaning towards    the most is the one you just named and    the other one though that I'm also    tempted by the only reason that I like    it less is because it adds less    redundancy but it adds less components    and therefore Simplicity and that would    be instead of a battery charger which    accepts both voltages and both    frequencies is to install for example    victron's multiplus which is an inverter    charger and correct me there but if you    know the unit from what I understood is    um it can accept    um also both frequencies and both    voltages    no no no you choose one or the other oh    you choose one or the other I thought    they have they have they have inverter    Chargers that are    .  they have    inverter Chargers that are      . but    you can't it does not and this could    change right the world is there's    nothing categorical unless you're    probably the product manager uh but to    my knowledge    um that does not exist you you don't    have an inverter charger that enables    you to change the output frequency not    the output but it allows both inputs    that was my understanding no that's my    understanding is is no okay it would be    ideal uh absolutely and that's why    people end up doing Chargers and    inverters    so you end up having    um a charger on the AC side    and everything basically is just about    recharging the battery bank and you    could be connected to shore power    and there's pros and cons of this you    could be connected to shore power let's    say a   amp Shore power    and you've installed let's say a big    charger a hundred at    uh for example maybe     amp charger at      volts that's probably going to draw      amps so you're actually drawing about      amps right now from your   amp Shore    power    and um    now that's     amps DC so your inverter    is going to maybe output    you know maybe it's going to be able to    run maybe a seven maybe an eight amp uh    AC load at    .      because you're never going to be able to      run you see this is where it gets      interesting you'll never be able to run      anything directly offshore power      so if you have a large AC load that you      want to run      uh that exceeds your     amps of DC      charging then what you end up doing is      you end up sort of like a little bit      draining your batteries right yeah so      and that's okay because as long as over      time that that excessive load is      variable right so you really think about      it and this is what's I think so      attractive with this model is the      majority of the time you're not going to      be connected to shore power right      um it's there's many reasons for that      um Financial is one of them uh for many      many of us uh destinations around the      world are not inexpensive and it's one      thing to travel for two weeks as we know      and have a big budget      because you go back to work and you're      working for the rest of the year but      once you're offshore and you're doing it      as a lifestyle      uh connecting every day is quite      prohibitive even for them it's also      another preference it's nice to recharge      here and there because at anchor you      don't always get the perfect sleep but      it's also the preference to have the      best setup to stay at anchor because I      mean that is what we prefer yeah nice      every now and then      yeah and so think about it that way when      you have an inverter based boating      um so when you're not connected to shore      power your boat is basically the way we      want it right you have batteries if      you're going to run any sort of AC      appliances on your boat the only way of      doing it and it's a choice is that you      decide to turn on the inverter to power      an AC appliance that you feel that you      want to have run for whatever amount of      time you feel you can afford to run it      because your battery banks are      essentially charged maybe you're      underway and you know the alternator is      running or maybe it's a sunny day and      you're not really using a lot of power      and you're like well why not use that      extra AC power or battery power that we      have to recharge maybe a laptop or run a      power tool uh or a power tool charger      for example right those would be things      that uh you know some voters would have      you know maybe a drill uh a sander you      know maybe something like that right      that could potentially run off your      inverter that's the only thing we use it      for at the moment uh yeah charge my      drill and my laptop we have the smallest      of victron inverters and that's what      it's for yeah yeah yeah      um so all right so we'll park that now      the downside of this      is that for example here in the Pacific      Northwest if you had a if you were going      to run an AC load continuously like      think about a heater      a little small ceramic heater      and that AC load you know it's a small      little uh heater and you can buy those      at West Marine and you can buy them      everywhere and maybe it draws you know      uh     apps at    .      uh volts well that would not be possible      so all these borders right now that are      having heating systems on their boat and      maintaining heat on their boat and      they're drawing you know maybe            amps of AC current to maintain heat on      their boat      well that that sort of      uh usage would not work on an      inverter-based boat right so even if you      were connected to shore power      um      you wouldn't be able to exceed the      output exceed you wouldn't be able to      exceed the draw on your batteries beyond      what your battery charger could give you      right so it moderates your consumption      yeah      now one thing to think about Maya and      you brought that up originally and I      think it's a good point you know      in life it's really hard to build      something for everything      so what you want to do is you want to      say to yourself okay what am I going to      be doing for the next five ten years and      I'm going to build an electrical system      for that and when the boat comes back to      North America let's say it does or it      goes back to Europe or wherever its      final sort of more like      resting places for a longer period of      time      then you can make changes right it's not      hard to make changes it's really not      hard on the EC because everything comes      to one place and you can just move it      around it's not that difficult it's not      a big deal uh it's not like the DC which      is large cabling going everywhere so      what I always tell voters is yeah maybe      you know think about what you're going      to be really doing with your boat most      of the time for the foreseeable future      and if that changes then we can deal      with it later and it's not a big deal to      change because it's really hard to beat      all things at the same time it's like an      all-season Tire      is not as good as a really good summer      Tire or a good winter tire right and      it's the same thing with our electrical      systems if you're trying to be      everything it's it's a challenge yeah      so any questions comments on      um the thought of having a charger      connected and now of course assuming      that my understanding of the victron      products uh is that an inverter charger      cannot have dual input frequencies and      one single output because I think the      challenge and I've asked this question      before is that some inverters      I have what's called a pass-through      function      um and this is where the inverter      and it's a good thing and a bad thing so      all inverters do this or practically all      the ones that I'm aware of      um if they're inverter Chargers and even      some inverters do that actually as well      is they're going to allow you to have an      AC input and an AC output and if the      inverter is disabled      um the AC goes in and goes up      but it's also monitored on the AC input      right there's actually if it's the wrong      frequency or the wrong voltage it's      actually going to throw an alarm      because the inverter has to make a just      a decision am I going to take an AC      input and connect it to my AC output      or am I going to take      what comes from the batteries and take      the inverter output and connect it to      the AC output      and that's a decision and there's a      relay that decides oh and the inverter      is on you know take power from the      inverter output      the inverters disabled      and we have we're sensing a good AC on      the AC input connected through to the AC      output      um and having ACN to AC out allows the      effectively automatic not having to use      rotary dials      to go from if your boat is on Shore      power or if your boat is on      um      inverter or if your boat is on generator      right so it's a way for      to simplify the use of an inverter      um manufacturers that even have sort of      involved not well maybe invented or      provide this feature called the password      feature      um do you have questions or comments      well that was kind of the last system      that I had uh drawn up      um where our system would have been      using an inverter charger with the      pass-through so then we could have also      had AC went at the dock and we could      power like a space heater because it's      not inverter only      but now I am questioning if we want to      go that route or not um because yeah you      said that they don't allow dual input      and that is what I had believed earlier      so yeah I I don't well you'll find out      um but that's one of the limitations      right yeah is because of the      pass-through function      um the inverter only out right only      outputs one and then but it can be mixed      match on the input and so having one at      fifty one at   is where I think the      concern is okay      um      so a lot of Voters end up doing this way      and this is would be a reason why when      it comes to sizing a battery charger      you're probably better off getting a      larger battery charger because it's      really effectively also the only way      um that you can actually recharge your      battery Bank to allow you to even when      you're connected to shore power right      because everything else would be always      powered      through the battery Bank either via an      inverter or direct to your loans      yeah do you understand yeah okay      okay so      um and that's why let's maybe talk a      little bit about oh and you mentioned      something uh maybe also I should bring      that up I hide highlighting the      consultation you had mentioned it uh in      your previous vote you had an AC panel      with the reverse polarity light      uh can you explain to others why you      think that's an important feature      ooh I think you'd be better at this Videolytics    Tools